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soulpope "Ever Since The World Ended, I Don`t Get Out As Much"Registriert seit: 02.12.2013
Beiträge: 56,509
Carol Kaye …. memories about Joe Maini
I liked Joe, he, like all others respected me, my musicianship and as a woman. Jazz musicians of the 1950s while a few were prejudiced against working with women in Jazz, most were excited and happy to work with you I found. It all depends upon your (as a woman) attitude in professionalism, and fitting in with the „guys“ and all their attitudes and great playing. If you were respectful, they (if you played!) were respectful…it was a co-op thing
Yes, a few were into the heroin, but it was a very quiet hidden thing, never overt like it is now, almost a „pride“ now…..it was shameful in the 1950s, so pot (in the form of hash, with the „bubble machine“) and (sometimes) a little heroin were done in the „back-room of clubs“ during breaks
The rest of us? Hanging out near the bar or being treated to whatever you wanted to drink by the fans…..most of whom were in the money-earning Aerospace Industry, very huge back in the 1950s L.A. with the race-on with Russia, and the new jet-airliner manufacturing fervor by all Aircraft Companies, North American, Hughes, Boeing, and Lockheed.
Everyone loved going out to their fav jazz club nearby to hear fine jazz….the WWTwo vets working in Aerospace, all jazz lovers (some country too, the country-western bands were working too, but with 100+ Jazz clubs in LA, Jazz was the „pop“ music of the 1950s…. It was a hot era for good musicLike I said, I always liked Joe, a fantastic bebopper, we called him the „West Coast Bird“, he was that good yes. One day I bumped into him at Farmers Market (Fairfax) and we always enjoyed kidding with each other. I didn’t know until we walked out, he had a huge T-bone steak underneath his shirt….whew…..yes musicians were nutty enough to steal, it was sort of a „given“, you didn’t lend your guitar to anyone on drugs, like Joe Pass etc….at that time
Somehow I didn’t blame Joe, tho‘ I always was against stealing, even food….I worked for my money for my kids and mother 1956-57, day job daily, then quick nap, dinner and jazz gig working almost every night too….sometimes I hung out (tho‘ rarely) to listen to records with the guys 3-4 times….all were respectful and I was one of them. I knew they respected my playing also. I worked with everyone.
One day, I bumped into Joe Maini on Cahuenga near Hollywood Blvd. in the day time. Hollywood was a nice sleepy town back then, no druggies, no prostitutes nor dealing on the streets like in late 1960s on…..we were surprised to see each other, and like most jazz musicians serious in their soloing, we couldn’t find the words to express how we felt in a conversation. So I asked him a question by singing, ad-libbing scat singing of patterns, he loved it and answered back to me in jazz patterns only scatting, no words. There we were on the street, going back and forth like that, and even understanding what each other meant. Having fun „talking with music notes“…it was a language we used musically and we had fun „discussing“ stuff.
A new different mutual bond made, we both smiled and walked on – always friends on the stand too – RIP Joe, I miss you and everyone else especially today. Joe’s spirit was amazing!
Yes, I miss Joe, I miss them all, mostly good men, yes some flawed especially when it came to maybe some doing drugs, and some in booze heavily too, but they could play…..and it was with respect for each other on the stage. Then later….I bumped into a few in the rock studio stuff who weren’t of that quality of musician (never playing in Jazz clubs) in recording records but only a few…my kids knew who they were, I’d come home complaining about them. But mainly recording those records 1957 on started with the same great professional attitudes, for it was mainly jazz musicians who did the best of the Studio work too!
JOE MAINI! One of west coast’s greats, his playing was superb, inventive, and was called West Coast’s Bird, how great he was! And was a nice man too! A little crazy but in this world, that’s a blessing-
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"Kunst ist schön, macht aber viel Arbeit" (K. Valentin)
soulpope "Ever Since The World Ended, I Don`t Get Out As Much"Registriert seit: 02.12.2013
Beiträge: 56,509
Carol Kaye on Red Mitchell, Scot LaFaro
A little of the real jazz scenes here in LA area.Jimmy Madden had a great jazz club at the east end of Hollywood Blvd. in the late 50s and the Sunday afternoon jam sessions were jam-packed with jazz fans and local musicians. You got to sit in and play only by personal invitation.
About the time I was starting to work with Red Mitchell (I was a jazz guitarist then) was around 1956-57 and that’s probably the time I started going over there too to play a few times. And everyone was talking about the „kid“, Scot LaFaro. I remember the first time I went there to play, it was Frank Butler on the drums and Red on bass.
Then Scot got up to play — well, it was like a whirlwind on the string bass as he’d play solo after solo with speed and great sub-chordal ideas. I remember him as a nice guy, kind of quiet but when he got on that bass, it was a different story. Then a Japanese fellow got up to play some drums (think he’s the one who became a movie actor later-on), and that’s about all I can remember about sitting in to play on that smoke-filled Sun. afternoon. The feelings were great for the music tho‘, the club like the rest of the jazz clubs of that time period around LA county was packed with musicians, jazz-fans who came to hear the sounds.
There was another after-hours club in El Monte also where we’d all go to jam at after our gigs, until 8AM sometimes on Sat. night. Don Randi used to love to play piano there and I think this is the first time we had played together also. Then Don hired me on guitar, string bassist Bob West, and a drummer (believe it was Phil Wood’s drummer, Bill Goodwin). We opened the very first „Troubadour“ which originally was a jazz club Doug Weston opened in back of a restaurant on La Cienega in Hollywood which also quickly became a „place“ to play some good jazz there also. Later Doug changed the venue during the 60s and opened his now-famous Troubadour on Santa Monica Blvd.
And after many years of intense studio work (we worked together quite a bit on many a recording date), Don opened his now-famous Baked Potato around 1971 with our trio of Joe Pass, Paul Humprey and myself on elec. bass as opening act to Don’s group.
Red, like the rest of us, did his share of studio work on string bass, and even played on the hit „Ode To Billy Jo“ — and you notice there are no drums on that record, that’s how good his groove was. About the fall of 1968, Red, Ralph Pena and myself had dinner together — Red was increasingly disenchanted about politics, was getting a divorce, and was leaving for Sweden the next day. We had a nice dinner together and spoke of leaving Hollywood, Ralph was going to try his hand at film scoring down in Mexico City (and I went with him, leaving for a couple of months).
It was sad to see the great Red Mitchell leave town as he was a beautiful person who cared about fellow musicians – he was a loyal friend. We had lost so many good jazz players over the years: Curtis Counce (heart attack), Joe Maini (russian roulette accident with a gun), Scot (car accident), LeRoy Vinnegar moved to Portland, etc. so it really hit home when Red also left. I got some letters from Red after that – we kept in touch a little bit.
He was happy in Europe where he was treated with a lot of respect and honor and he locked into a lot of work in Sweden, on-tour in Europe, and really enjoyed his new life there. But finally a few years ago, moved with his wife to Oregon where he had both a stroke and heart attack and passed on sadly. Jazzman John Heard bought his famous great bass btw.
Many of the fine jazz musicians of that time went into studio work and if we didn’t show much emotion as players before, we sure had to have „stone“ faces with the introduction of many of the younger producers who were a little edgy about hiring older musicians. We didn’t let on about our Jazz backgrounds, that would really have made them nervous. One smile at the wrong time, and you didn’t work for them again so we were careful and took care of business in spite of the fact that sometimes they had little idea of what to tell us to do, we knew by what to do anyway and helped them learn their craft of being a producer.
The earlier producers knew what they were doing – they were mostly jazzmen and would treat us with the utmost respect, as did the later younger group of producers, but among them, there were a couple or so who were kind of rough to work for. We used to say „we got them a hit in spite of themselves.“ Most of them shaped up and became very good producers and were nice to us (after they saw how good we created and played so they’d have some great hits). And we all had a good relationship with the younger producers too, working on many a hit record together.
LeRoy Vinnegar was another fine bassist (finally lived in Portland until his passing) around in the 1950s and early 1960s too as was Red Callendar, teacher of Charles Mingus who had already left for NY. LeRoy was a gentleman, a great pro also.
The Jazz Great, Harold Land, fine jazz saxman, also had his group around LA in the 1950s but wasn’t into doing studio work, Harold stayed in the Jazz world tho‘ it was rough going in the 1960s….I think he did well on his European and Asian tours, was a very refined person, great family man and his son, Harold Land Jr. is now out there playing fine jazz also around LA. Harold Sr. was a close friend of Hampton Hawes too as was Dexter Gordon who left early for NYC…..so did Mingus.
Other local (jazz) bassists included Buddy Clarke (see pic in Library), Joe Comfort, Adolphis Hasbrook, Jimmy Bond (double 007 we’d call him), Don Bagley, Cliff Hils, Joe Mondragon, Mel Pollan, Lyle Ritz, many others. Ray Brown came out to LA mid 60s, as did Al McKibbon and others. Cliff Hils, while working a few of the 60s record dates at first, when it turned out to be 99% Fender Bass, he left town for Lake Tahoe where he had some great steady long-time jazz gigs.
Jazz was big in Wes Montgomery’s home-town in Indiana, and then in Columbus, Ohio too, smaller metro areas like that and in Pittsburgh even Phoenix where I was – jazz was big with many many jazz clubs everywhere even in Louisville KY and of course in Kansas City MO, Birmingham AL, and New Orleans, not just NYC, Chicago, and LA.
I played guitar with mainly the finest in jazz around the LA/Hollywood/Beach Towns areas during the heavy music years of 1956 through 1964. And originally started playing jazz gigs, just the Goodman Sextet type of jazz in 1949 at age 14 working my late teens through about age 29 when I played in the jazz clubs here, and the period I’m speaking of with Scot had to be about 1957….when I was 22. Jazz died here starting about 1961 but I know it continued a little bit elsewhere in the USA and Canada tho‘ in a diminished way (not as big as in the 1950s)
Actually, Jimmie Madden’s club in Hollywood was really just one of about 100 jazz clubs around LA – they had jazz rooms in bowling alleys even, it was that popular. Real Jazz was practically the „pop“ music boom of the 1950s – easy to play since everyone had the then-popular chordal education, playing standards (which jazz emanates from) commonly. Not just scores of clubs but literally 100s. There were places all over the Beach Towns, south LA of course, Hollywood, East of LA, South LA, all over the place. Hampton Hawes usually played at the Intermission Room, across from where Marty’s on The Hill was later built…Nite Life on so. Western was a beautiful club, very popular, and some clubs downtown too as well as Washington Blvd. Beverly Caverns on Beverly etc…many clubs Panchos in Manhattan Beach…also.
There were even 4-5 on the short Sunset Strip – 2 eventually turned into strip houses….one (used to be called the Renaissance) turned into the House of Blues, and another one into a famous club that is a rock club, Roxy’s (?), and of course all the LA areas in-between too…..but I happened to remember Scot in that one club as he wasn’t in-town long, but always on the road after that. Sadly he died very young in a car accident on the road
Doug Weston had a going-jazz club in the back of a restaurant on La Cienega that Don Randi and I (and Bob West on bass, who on drums I forget), and Doug closed that when rock hit and opened his new club on Santa Monica with folk songs then, eventually turning it into a famous rock club. The Comedy Club on Santa Monica Blvd. was once a great jazz club too, the name will be in my book, I forget what it was now but we all played there a lot too, also a big jazz club was on Melrose
Scot LaFaro played jazz solos like everyone eventually played on bass, like sax solos – that’s all — wasn’t anything special except for his speed and quick ideas, something bass players weren’t used to doing at that time. That type of bass soloing was new at that time for bass players. He did it at a time when no-one else, not even Ray Brown, was doing the chordal sub patterns at that time like sax players (and only a few guitar players were doing that too, Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass etc..I had a little of that down too and was making a good name for myself, but no , not like the above were)…
Bassist Ralph Pena was doing that a short time later in 1959 etc., and eventually everyone learned the art of soloing (which I now teach) like sax players….it’s not hard but is another way of learning real jazz especially for the limited range of bass (4 strings) – you had to have your fingering and technique together as well as your substitute chordal approaches.
Dontes was one of the ONLY real jazz clubs where we’d hang at (and only one in the Valley) throughout the late 1960s and beyond due to all the studio musicians supporting it, populating it after our record dates – Marty’s on the Hill had been built during the 1960s (wasn’t there in the 1950s, was just a hill then) a few others, but Dontes was the FAV…..we’d go there trying to get „rock and roll out of our ears“….we all loved Dontes and the finest jazz that was played there. It was in North Hollywood near Universal Studios on Lankershim Blvd, just north of Moorpark where the church is on the west side of the street. There were a few clubs still going in South LA, but only for a few years into the 1970s-80s.
No other club ever took the place of Dontes where everyone came…. it was THE club but torn down. The former owner, Cary (originally it a partnership of 3 people), who we all had worked for with our gigs at Dontes, had just sold it, went into his small office after signing the final papers on the place….he just sat down, probably just fell asleep on his desk. He was found dead from natural causes….he had seen the finest years of great jazz there, knew everyone, and as a fixture of Dontes, and everyone felt like it was the close of the era when he passed on, dying after selling the club….sad but sort of a natural ending in a way we all tho’t at that time as we all knew Cary and how much that club with all its great music was a part of him personally. That was it for the 1980s.
The new owner(s) were from outside the USA sort of freaked about his death and so they leveled it and turned it into an auto lot it’s been to this day.
I think Marty’s on the Hill (a little south of Wash. Blvd.) was still going but featuring jazz only on the weekends – they had some great groups in there, Milt Jackson, Ray Brown etc. 7 nights a week for awhile. You did have that big jazz club still going on Santa Barbara Ave. (later re-named Martin Luther King Blvd.) – called the Santa Barbara Club – later „Memory Lane“ (it was „Marlas“ finally when the TV star bought it), but it too only became an occasional place for real jazz eventually. Dontes‘ tho‘ was packed every night, everyone frequented it all throughout the 1960s and 1970s.
I played at the last of the Sunset Strip jazz clubs in 1963 with Monk Montgomery on string bass, the place almost on the corner on north side of the street……“Roxy“ I believe, is the name of it now and the House of Blues is the old beautiful Renaissance Room a great jazz restaurant which featured the finest in jazz, oh well…it used to be a beautiful club (was just the upstairs) but now it’s known as the House of Blues.
When Monk and I played at the club on north side of the st., the stage for it, as a jazz club, was on your left as you walked in the room and was always filled with lingering jazz fans late in ’63 but gone by ’64. I was pregnant with Gwyn (and still a guitarist not a bassist yet) and you won’t believe the guys hitting on me even being 7-8 months along, it was packed every night in that summer, and fun gig for about 2 weeks.
In 1962 (and early 1963), I also played at the last of the Blue Angel West with Page Cavenaugh’s hot 8-piece band too (Jack Sperling on drums, Don (Bags) Bagley bass, Bob Jung sax, Lew McCreary on trombone (great!), and Dave Wells also trombone, yours truly guitar, and Page on piano and sometimes vocals too. It was a HOT great jazz group, fun too, and was very jam-packed every night with movie stars (Rita Hayworth Jack Webb etc.), Mayor Yorty, Pete Pitchess the Sheriff, other vips…this club was where George Shearing used to come all the time (and when he asked me to join his group, darn it, I had to say „no“, I couldn’t leave my kids and studio work, tho‘ I always felt badly I had to turn him down, his music was sooo great) – that was a fun-gig for quite a few months
Singer Beryl Davis came down to Blue Angel West also and she and George would kibbitz…she said one time „hi George – I didn’t see you, it’s so bloomin‘ dark in here“ and he replied „I’m hip!“ lol. – they were great interesting people and it was a great hip place to play in Studio City. Gone soon after that tho‘. But I just checked out that location and there’s still a restaurant there, a popular one too next to the bank
Ram’s Horn was another place and from time to time, they’d occasionally have jazz (with the great Pete Jolly Trio)….I remember the Ram’s Horn as at the end of a dirt road (Ventura Blvd.) back in the late 1950s….seemed like the end of the earth to drive way out there (Encino). It was owned by the LA Rams Football Team.
Ram’s Horn featuring Jazz 7 nights a week became rarer and rarer, and they were mostly known for their great food. Many a place tried after that but didn’t last long as a „jazz club“ in the 1960s….tho‘ it was surely better than now. At least you’d have a jazz club for awhile here and there, but none could rival Dontes‘ for being „the place“….
Jazz is very much alive but usually only in private gigs, and commercially as backup groups playing for the diners in restaurants, with dining „background“ music….still that’s pretty good and there’s plenty of those around paying pretty well for good jazz gigs everywhere.&
Jazz today is much different as I suspect audiences go for the background jazz while eating (which is fine – I’d hate to play for a completely dead-quiet audience), or if they come for the music, the audience I think expects more of a visual experience….different than our time back then, when it was to „hear“ (not to „see“) jazz.
The 1950s crowd was more of a former „radio“ crowd, now we have TV people as an audience, it’s just different…..and of course it’s usually a mixture of jazz too. I get a kick out of today’s „Jazz Festivals“ most of which don’t feature anything near real jazz, but blues, fusion bordering on rock and roll etc…..it’s very different these days – you sure didn’t see any ego in the music of the 1950s like today).
Jazz is alive and doing very well tho‘ in private gigs, which still flourish today and pay extremely well….even big bands are doing private gigs and doing well. It’s people with money who are keeping the tradition going in a good way.
Musicians back then were very sensitive to the fact that they weren’t in that league yet and didn’t try to „sit in“ at all….Jazz being one of the most-complex inventive music to play and totally dependent on each other for the inventive-creation, unlike other forms of music. Any weak link (lesser musician) meant you had to overcome „that person“ and make up for their playing, hence the „look“ if anyone who was naive tried.
All this improvising was something that the producers of the hit recordings of the late 1950s and early 1960s had to have in studio work. Jazz musicians invented every note they played….that’s why producers (called A&R men back then) sought out the top jazz players with their inventiveness, their experience, and fine recordable technique especially wanting to hire jazz musicians who were not fouled up on drugs or booze to go to work in the lucrative recording studios back then. You didn’t have to read well back in the early days, but increasingly yes you not only had to sightread music mainly as the 1960s rolled on, but you had to create your own parts on *top* of what was written to get someone a hit recording, that’s mainly why the #1 call musicians did.
Sometimes, live jazz musicians would put up with ones not as good as they if that person had the right dedication and proper respect for the *music* and of course respect the musicians who could play it well. It was all very sensitive and subtle not like the later rock times.
But that’s not the case with studio work. Either you did it well, were very professional or you were *gone*….that’s a lot of money riding on musicians.
60s was a really bad time, druggies much worse and dying yes. But we also had some of the greatest Jazz musicians with no problems of drugs who worked Studio Work in the 1960s……Trumpeter Great Al Porcino worked some Studio work here, terrific to work with him, tho‘ he did talk slow……he sent us overtime asking questions of Shorty Rogers…both of them with their snail-speed talking (Capitol Rec’s)
Uh Shorty……. Yes….Al…..what ….note ….should …it ….be in …uh….let’s see….uh …bar 49 …for ….me?…..“OK…let …me look……I think….it should….be….a ….Db….is that…what …you …have …Al?……….Shorty….no…..I’ll…make….it….a …Db…..“OK….Al…..let’s…..try ….another…take….“ RIGHT into OVERTIME! We had another paid 1/2 hour then, double-pay!…………we always missed Al after he moved to Germany. Don Ellis (12-12-123-12-123-12 he wrote some great 35/8 time charts!)….was cool to work for, did part of an album with him, too bad he contracted that virus in So. America that eventually killed his heart. I worked local LA Jazz gigs some after being locked into studio work, only thing I regretted was turning George Shearing down 1963 (wasn’t into bass yet, but was playing every week with Page Cavenaugh’s group guitar, and he asked me, but just couldn’t see traveling anymore and leaving studio work losing so much money (Studio work PAID!)…leaving my kids anymore like I did 1954-55 big-band tour, yes cars then too, no drugs tho‘! just occasional booze and my 1st husband was sometimes indulging too much too)…
………. it died out by 1963-64 with most of the former 100 or so Jazz clubs of L.A. gone and changed into rock clubs. Even the later Comedy clubs were all great Jazz clubs even including the once-great Jazz Clubs of south LA……..leaving us with only 5-6 real Jazz clubs – now probably only 2 tho‘ a couple of others has Jazz sometimes……..Baked Potato started off with real Jazz but quickly changed to mostly fusion from mid 1970s on
Hampton Hawes, was Miles‘ fav pianist, the innovator of the sub-chords ii-V7s….and he too was a genius musician but his whole life ruined by drugs and prison unfortunately and going back to occasional cocaine was not good, he died of a stroke in his 40s….he had a very huge funeral. – was very beloved……Joe Pass was lucky, he cleaned up early in the 1960s at Synanon. Billy Higgins opted for NYC when rock started taking over Jazz clubs, left with Ornette Coleman who was sitting in with us (had a funny-looking white sax) all the time…..but Billy got into heavy drugs in NYC (so did others who left LA for NYC, Hamp never wanted to leave LA)…..and it affected his liver he told me in 1980s when I saw him last….but was able to play quite a few years then with a transplant….it was so sad to lose him years ago. Billy, probably the most-recorded Jazz drummer, was a nice person, great drummer, the best!
I had known Pete Jolly since his great Phoenix Jazz combo gigs with Howard Heitmeyer 1952…..easily one of the greats in real Jazz ….
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"Kunst ist schön, macht aber viel Arbeit" (K. Valentin)
soulpope "Ever Since The World Ended, I Don`t Get Out As Much"Registriert seit: 02.12.2013
Beiträge: 56,509
PLAYING WITH THE TEDDY EDWARDS GROUP IN THE LATE 1950s
About the Teddy Edwards Documentary on PBS
This is about one of the many jazz groups I played guitar with in the popular late 1950s hot LA Jazz scenes…I believe this documentary was shot some years ago, and probably released earlier, but I didn’t know this film existed until last night when it was shown on PBS. It has some names on there too describing Teddy, namely his friend, Clora Bryant, fine trumpet lady (who learned from Dizzy Gillespie), someone I also worked with early on, next door to the Lighthouse in the late 1950s
I worked quite a few 1950s bebop jazz gigs on guitar with Teddy and was in his group when producer Bumps Blackwell walked in the Beverly Caverns Jazz Club and hired me for guitar fills on some Sam Cooke stuff in 1957. This was when I was soloing all the time, having a blast working every night with the different jazz gigs all over town.
Teddy we all knew, was from NY, but originally came from Mississippi, same area where Ike Turner is from, heart of the really tough racist areas of the South, tho‘ he never talked about it
He was one of the best saxmen around, one of the best I consistently worked with, tho‘ I loved Joe Maini, who was the „monster“ saxman in Hollywood/LA areas, and the wonderful Harold Land – I worked with them also, others too who were all excellent etal. When playing bebop jazz gigs, you work with everyone…jazz was played at Bar Mitzvahs and weddings too…as well as the prolific jazz nightclubs where you played with everyone. Seemed like back then, that every nightclub in town, including some bowling alleys were jazz clubs and that included some tea houses and strip-tease places. Many of the current rock clubs on the Strip were former jazz haunts inc. comedy clubs on Melrose etc. So. LA especially was loaded with fine posh Jazz clubs, people wore suits & beautiful dresses to come hear music – all of South L.A. was thriving ,due to millions working in the many huge aircraft co’s, building jet planes, missles etc….was the national center for aircraft building….and WW Two vets loved real Jazz, sometimes the NYC Jazz icons flew out to do some nice gigs too, they loved the weather, the geniality, and the pretty ladies
The 1950s jazz area after the Main St. era, was the South LA area and it was hoppin‘! So many great jazz clubs, people dressed to the 9s….clubs all crowded ALL the time, it was an exciting time for fine jazz to be played and whites were welcome in So. LA…the era was exciting and friendly tho…..if you were caught trying to play when your playing wasn’t up to par quite yet, you got the „LOOK“ (get off the stage now if you want to live!) – fortunately I never got the „look“ and it was fun all the time, tho‘ it never paid anyone enough money to raise a family with….so musicians married women who worked — I had to work a day job too for my family, it was double-duty so I tho’t studio work would supply the extra money I needed and it did, I kept working jazz clubs tho‘ less and less as studio work increased.
Anyway…..it was good to see Teddy on his documentary, he finally „made it“ tho‘ we all knew he worked through those rough years of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s barely making a dime …..a good example (between he and Hampton Hawes, newly out of jail in the middle 1960s, he was the BEST) of what we faced if we didn’t record the rock and roll in the studios…..we were the lucky ones tho‘ we didn’t think so at the time – that feeling of „success“ came later on …. it was a business and we worked. That was what mattered to for our families we took care of.
Teddy’s tenor work was exciting since he broke away from the then-popular Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins sounds, switching to tenor when playing with Charlie Parker, to be the first to play bebop jazz (sub chordal patterns — what you have in your „Pro’s Jazz Phrases“ book etc.) on the tenor (Bird and Sonny Stitt were doing it on Alto)….catch this doc if you can, it’s a piece of our jazz age when the only technological advances were the touch-tone phone and the pre-fax machines in the offices.
It was more of a „feeling“ era back then, and music was very profound and real. The great Billy Higgins (mr. „Time“) was always on drums, and it was a group where Ornette Coleman would sometimes come down to sit in with us, but little by little, the rock and roll took over all the 100s of jazz nightclubs here in LA, it all broke up and the handwriting was on the wall. I worked with Billy quite a bit in various groups during 1956-1960 or so….as well as with other fine drummers like Bill Goodwin, Frank Butler, Jack Sperling etc.
Others like fine jazz saxman Curtis Amy went into some studio work for awhile but disappeared, Jay Migliori of course is on some of the top recordings (BB’s etc.) and went back out to play in the Palm Springs and San Diego areas after he retired to a home on the beach; Plas Johnson of course did well in the studio work, Monk Higgins was big in the studios for awhile and finally moved to Africa.
Bob Cooper long a Lighthouse fav, did a lot of movie work as did Bud Shank – and Bud was smart, making very nice commercial (yet jazz) albums too, I played on some of his nice stuff…..which I also did for Monk Higgins, and for John Klemmer, some nice commercial jazz recordings, some nice recordings.
Bill Green the gentleman star of jazz sax out here in LA, quickly made himself at home doing a ton of studio work, and did a great share of teaching fine jazz too (rip, he passed about the time I moved back here)…..teaching Ernie Watts, etc….
Fine jazz drummer Frank Butler kept up with the scene, hanging in there with the tough jazz era of the 1960s-70s died tho‘ early on after a lifetime of addiction to heroin sadly – he was highly respected and just a fantastic drummer and good person; Another jazz drummer great who lived out here for a short while in the 1950s was Bill Goodwin, terrific drummer, lived in NY where he has long been a fav with the fine Phil Woods group for years, recording with Phil and others and never quite getting his due imo….he, Max Roach, Billy, and others were the tops in jazz in NYC.
John Guerin came later after a thriving jazz career in San Diego and the road, hitting it big in the middle 1960s for a hot studio career, later appearing live with the Byrds (pop tour) and the fusion Tom Scott-led LA Express, etc….and Earl Palmer had a huge jazz career along with his studio career in New Orleans since the late 1940s, but once Earl got here in 1957 he was almost too busy to play jazz, just going out occasionally, yet he played more jazz around LA as he got older and helped jazz clubs like Charlie O’s get started with his Tuesday night jams, encouraging younger musicians also – Earl was a warm and great musician, and played on some fantastic recorded hits in his #1 studio career as well as TV shows, and movie soundtracks.
Larry Bunker was HOT in the movie studios after a great career in jazz drums and once in awhile stepped out live (if he found the time), ditto for Alvin Stoller, Stan Levey (one of the original Lighthouse drummers!), Ed Thigpen, Jake Hanna, Nick Ceroli, Harold Jones, and the great Mel Lewis moved back to NYC in the 1970s (he didn’t like LA as saxman Jerome Richardson moved too, in the early 1980s he moved back to NYC)…
Trumpet jazz great Jack Sheldon is still playing! He did a great money-paying stint as a featured artist playing and singing and doing his special comedy (he’ll have you on the floor laughing) of the Merv Griffin Show along with carrying on his great jazz career out here, did some recording and he overall did well, is still active, god bless him…..Sweets Edison did some good studio work, mixing it up with his big-band jazz career and small combo jazz work too, what there was of it in the 1960s-70s and did more into the 1980s….a notable in the trumpet world as was Oscar Brashear on the Johnny Carson TV show, and Cat Anderson (with the Duke etc.)….
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"Kunst ist schön, macht aber viel Arbeit" (K. Valentin)danke fuer die Ausschnitte, soulpope, sehe das erst jetzt so richtig…
gerade bei den Recherchen zur Geschichte des modernen Saxophonspiels gefunden… der eine oder andere hat vielleicht noch die britische Kroenung vom Wochenende im Hinterkopf, alles ziemlich verstaubt… bei Bill Clintons Amtseinfuehrung im Jahr 1993 waren zeitgemaessere Toene zu hoeren… und weil der angehende Praesident ja ein grosser Jazzfreund und Amateursaxophonist war, praesentierte man ihm eine Parade mit einigen von Amerikas tonangebenden Saxophonisten… Namen werde auch eingeblendet, aber fuers Gesamtbild hier die Solisten:
00:58 David Sanborn
01:10 Grover Washington Jr.
01:22 Curtis Stigers
01:34 Gerald Albright
01:46 Kirk Whalum
01:58 Tom Scott (am Sopranino-Saxophon, no less)
02:10 Kenny G
02:22 Gerry Mulligan
02:35 Dave Koz
02:47 Michael Brecker--
.das hier hatten wir vielleicht schonmal, ein super interessanter Artikel ueber den Niedergang des Smooth Jazz (und Smooth Jazz Radio, das geht Hand in Hand), schon was aelter (also: auch aelter als das Jahr 2019, das drueber steht)… hatte ich jetzt fast eher wegen der Diskussion im Tenorsax thread nochmal rausgesucht… mE ist ein grosser Teil von Fusion in den 80ern und 90ern einfach aus unserem Blickfeld als Jazzfans gewandert… aber der Artikel passt natuerlich auch sehr gut zu der Clinton Inauguraution… ich weiss selber noch wie ich damals als Schueler in San Diego diese Jazzsender auf meinem kleinen Radio gefunden hab, nur um zu erkennen, dass dort rund um die Uhr nur Unfug lief… (mit etwas suchen gab es aber auch noch einen zweiten Jazzsender, der gescheite Musik spielte – heute waere das alles sicher anders)
Eine repraesentative Passage:
“As a musician,” Veasley confides, “I couldn’t always quite get it-the enthusiasm people had for this music that’s sort of in between. It doesn’t have the spontaneity of straight-ahead jazz, and it doesn’t have the sure-headed, shake-ya-thang groove of R&B and pop. It’s somewhere in between. But you had that baby-boomer audience that was more than passionate about it.” When WJJZ pulled the plug on smooth jazz in September 2008, Veasley was amazed by the listener e-mails. “It was almost like someone died,” he remembers. “You know the stages of grief? People were incredulous. You had folks who were angry, folks who were hurt, folks with an overwhelming sadness[..]”
[Jeff Lorber: “the problem] has to do with the way these big corporations bundle their advertising. For whatever reason the smooth-jazz demographic didn’t work into that plan.”
One factor might have been that the smooth-jazz crowd is heavily mixed. “That was a revelation to me,” Veasley says, “when I started playing concerts and seeing how racially diverse the audience was. I thought, ‘Wow, this is exactly what it should be. It can’t be anything but good.’ When I got involved on the other side of the glass I started to understand that it was exactly the wrong recipe for radio sales. In other words, to go in and say, ‘Wow, we have this audience that is 50-50 white and black, male and female, with a wide age demographic’-that doesn’t appeal to people who pay for radio.”
(einfach in einem privaten Fenster oeffnen, falls paywall erscheint)
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.Haha, noch nie gesehen, danke – witzig! Scott und Kenny G austauschbar (wenig überraschend, und Kenny G besser, weil er ein vernünftiges Instrument spielt … gibt’s von Scott irgendwas, was mehr als nur ein Versprechen ist?), Mulligan findet nach dem doofen Zitat kaum den Tritt bis sein Slot durch ist … schön, wie die Dame hinter Brecker sich freut, als der loslegt.
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"Don't play what the public want. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you doin' -- even if it take them fifteen, twenty years." (Thelonious Monk) | Meine Sendungen auf Radio StoneFM: gypsy goes jazz, #162: Neuentdeckungen aus dem Katalog von CTI Records, 8.4., 22:00; # 163: 13.5., 22:00 | Slow Drive to South Africa, #8: tba | No Problem Saloon, #30: tbaKrasser Artikel, danke! Ein paar Dinge finde ich schwierig (wie zwischen R&B in der Zeit von Horace Silver/Lee Morgan eine Kontinuität zum Weichspüler-R&B der 90er hergestellt wird – vermutlich ein Problem von Begrifflichkeiten, aber klar: die erwähnten EW&F stehen irgendwie ja z.B. schon für eine solche Entwicklungslinie. Andere sofort einleuchtend: Dass das Boomer-Musik war (ist), Musik für Leute, die keinen Zugang zu Hip Hop und den Entwicklungen Anfang der 80er mehr finden konnten. Sehr spannend der Punkt, wie „heavily mixed“ das Publikum gewesen sei – ist Smooth Jazz auch irgendwie Neureichenmusik? Musik für Leute, denen die Oberfläche reicht, drum – und das wird mir bis ans Ende meiner Tage ein Rätsel bleiben: wie kann man dieser Musik gegenüber so richtig emotional werden? (Die Passage hast Du ja oben zitiert.) Die Smooth-Jazz-Welt ist mir wohl ähnlich fremd wie die US-College-Welt mit ihren seltsamen Ritualen … schon die Lektüre des Artikels kommt mir fast wie ein anthropologischer Trip vor
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"Don't play what the public want. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you doin' -- even if it take them fifteen, twenty years." (Thelonious Monk) | Meine Sendungen auf Radio StoneFM: gypsy goes jazz, #162: Neuentdeckungen aus dem Katalog von CTI Records, 8.4., 22:00; # 163: 13.5., 22:00 | Slow Drive to South Africa, #8: tba | No Problem Saloon, #30: tbaAch so, nochmal zum Clinton-Inauguration-Video: beim Tutti zu Beginn ging mir passend zum Hörprogramm der Gedanke durch den Kopf: Rufus Harley hätte das allein genau so gut hingekriegt (aka geföhnt)
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"Don't play what the public want. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you doin' -- even if it take them fifteen, twenty years." (Thelonious Monk) | Meine Sendungen auf Radio StoneFM: gypsy goes jazz, #162: Neuentdeckungen aus dem Katalog von CTI Records, 8.4., 22:00; # 163: 13.5., 22:00 | Slow Drive to South Africa, #8: tba | No Problem Saloon, #30: tbaDen Artikel über Dorothy Ashby im New Yorker wollte ich längst mal teilen:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/listening-booth/how-dorothy-ashby-made-the-harp-swing
Bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich mit seiner Einordnung von Alice Coltrane einverstanden bin, aber einen Artikel über Dorothy Ashby gibt es nicht alle Tage.Geschrieben hat ihn der Sohn von Reggie Lucas – das Stück von Flora Purim mit seinem Vater und Ashby ist das hier:
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"Don't play what the public want. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you doin' -- even if it take them fifteen, twenty years." (Thelonious Monk) | Meine Sendungen auf Radio StoneFM: gypsy goes jazz, #162: Neuentdeckungen aus dem Katalog von CTI Records, 8.4., 22:00; # 163: 13.5., 22:00 | Slow Drive to South Africa, #8: tba | No Problem Saloon, #30: tbaAstrud Gilberto: Sie starb in einer Wohnung mit ihren Katzen, von der Männerwelt verraten
Passt wahrscheinlich am besten in diesen Thread …
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bepeschAstrud Gilberto: Sie starb in einer Wohnung mit ihren Katzen, von der Männerwelt verraten
Passt wahrscheinlich am besten in diesen Thread …sehr schön und wichtig, danke!
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gypsy-tail-wind
Bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich mit seiner Einordnung von Alice Coltrane einverstanden bin, aber einen Artikel über Dorothy Ashby gibt es nicht alle Tage.danke. kannst du genauer beschreiben, was du mit der problematischen einordnung meinst?
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vorgarten
gypsy-tail-wind
Bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich mit seiner Einordnung von Alice Coltrane einverstanden bin, aber einen Artikel über Dorothy Ashby gibt es nicht alle Tage.danke. kannst du genauer beschreiben, was du mit der problematischen einordnung meinst?
Wo ich die betreffenden Passagen nochmal lese eigentlich nichts … dieses plakative „swept onto the scene with a majestically slow, glissando-heavy sound that seemed to promise spiritual illumination“ hatte mich gestern irgendwie etwas gestört. Aber eigentlich ist das ja alles ziemlich respektvoll (ich fand auch die Breitseite von Marzette Watts gegenüber Linda Sharrock nicht wirklich schlimm – diese „Doppelpack“-Geschichten gibt es halt wirklich und Watts sagt ja eigentlich gar nichts über Linda, ausser dass sie ihn nicht interessierte – da würd ich sagen „fair enough“, eben gerade, weil er ja nicht abschätzig oder ausfällig wird?)
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"Don't play what the public want. You play what you want and let the public pick up on what you doin' -- even if it take them fifteen, twenty years." (Thelonious Monk) | Meine Sendungen auf Radio StoneFM: gypsy goes jazz, #162: Neuentdeckungen aus dem Katalog von CTI Records, 8.4., 22:00; # 163: 13.5., 22:00 | Slow Drive to South Africa, #8: tba | No Problem Saloon, #30: tbagypsy-tail-wind
vorgarten
gypsy-tail-wind
Bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich mit seiner Einordnung von Alice Coltrane einverstanden bin, aber einen Artikel über Dorothy Ashby gibt es nicht alle Tage.danke. kannst du genauer beschreiben, was du mit der problematischen einordnung meinst?
Wo ich die betreffenden Passagen nochmal lese eigentlich nichts … dieses plakative „swept onto the scene with a majestically slow, glissando-heavy sound that seemed to promise spiritual illumination“ hatte mich gestern irgendwie etwas gestört. Aber eigentlich ist das ja alles ziemlich respektvoll (ich fand auch die Breitseite von Marzette Watts gegenüber Linda Sharrock nicht wirklich schlimm – diese „Doppelpack“-Geschichten gibt es halt wirklich und Watts sagt ja eigentlich gar nichts über Linda, ausser dass sie ihn nicht interessierte – da würd ich sagen „fair enough“, eben gerade, weil er ja nicht abschätzig oder ausfällig wird?)
ja, der satz ist ein bisschen doof (majestically slow [sound]?), und bei watts würde ich sagen, selbst schuld, dass er sich für linda nicht interessierte, aber klar, geht in ordnung. ashby war aber in der tat eine echte mentorin für coltrane, abseits der harfen-story, sie hat ihr ein klavier geschenkt und sicherlich den zweiten wichtigen hinweis an terry gibbs formuliert (neben ernie farrow). stilistisch sind sie kaum zu vergleichen, aber sie kamen ja aus der gleichen lokalen szene.
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